"I don't want to be too biased here," says Winslow, but I think we're on top of our game as far as the musical quality of the SPCO."

If you don't believe them, ask Star Tribune classical music critic Michael Anthony. "The level of playing is very high," Anthony says. "In fact I'm not sure it's ever been higher."

The declining audience perplexes St. Paul Chamber Orchestra President Bruce Coppick, but he believes one thing is clear: With two major orchestras in a community the size of the Twin Cities, there's a lot of orchestral music-making going on.

"Combined, the Minnesota Orchestra and the SPCO give 20 concerts more a year than the New York Philharmonic does," Coppick says. "So on a per-capita basis, there are more concert seats available than any other city in the country. That's astonishing, and it's a tribute to the cultural sophistication of this community."

A tribute yes, but a problem for two orchestras trying to stay out of the red. Add to those available concert seats all the performances by chamber groups and ensembles spawned by this rich orchestral environment. According to Minnesota Orchestra President David Hyslop, the orchestras also go head to head with the burgeoning theater scene in the Twin Cities, especially the Hennepin Avenue Theater District, the Ordway in St. Paul, and the resurgent Guthrie Theater under Joe Dowling. For Hyslop, that's a lot of competition for the Minnesota Orchestra in particular, which plays every week. Hyslop says it's important to remember the orchestra's 52-week season is the result of a contractual agreement with its musicians, not because of market demand. He thinks the orchestra is still playing catch-up in terms of audience.

Part of any orchestra's ongoing mission is to help raise the next generation of concert goers. If there's a popular perception that kids are turned off by classical music, it was shattered by this Minnesota Orchestra Young Peoples' Concert performance of Peter and the Wolf. The Hall was packed with Twin Cities elementary students, who squealed in delight as members of Theater de la Jeune Lune acted out the story on stage in front of the orchestra. Jim Bartsch, the Minnesota Orchestra's director of education, says all the Young People's concerts are sold out this season, but he doesn't want to stop there.

"I would love to see every kid in the metro area coming to a concert once a year," Bartsch says. "The kids that are too far away, I would like to see those kids hearing the orchestra either on line or broadcast on the radio, so that every kid can have a personal experience with this orchestra."

Bartsch believes kids are extremely receptive to this kind of music if they get the chance to hear it. While many decry the deterioration of arts and music education in the public schools, Bartsch thinks it's better than detractors give credit, especially in Minnesota. He's hopeful that when today's kids reach their 50s, the average age of a concertgoer, there'll be the same number of patrons as ever. There are many classical music observers who aren't as optimistic. As for why today's 20-, 30- and 40-year-olds appear to be staying away from the concert hall in droves, Pioneer Press classical music writer Matt Pieken says it's because orchestras haven't yet figured out how to reach the MTV generation.

"Does that mean you have to get a mosh pit in front of the orchestra pit? No," says Pieken.

Pieken thinks orchestras need to be much more open about what constitutes classical music—what furthers the art, he says, but also engages the audience. In other words, they need to take more risks.

"I think there needs to be more commissioning of people who work outside of traditional classical realms to create music that young people will say 'Hey, this speaks to me,' " Pieken says.

To a degree, SPCO President Bruce Coppick agrees with Peiken. Coppick says the SPCO used to be known for adventurous programming, and when it stopped taking risks, its audience began to dip. He's also concerned that, as the SPCO has become more conservative in programming and soloists, it has become blurred with the Minnesota Orchestra in the eyes of the community. That's why the SPCO is implementing a strategic overhaul of its image. Coppick says the plan includes re-energizing its commitment to new music and, beginning next season, turning the Ordway into a much more intimate space during performances by closing the upper balcony and thrusting the stage out into the hall.

"We think that a key element of keeping the SPCO alive and vibrant for our audiences is for them to understand that a chamber orchestra experience is fundamentally different from a full orchestral experience," Coppick said. "It's about intimacy and immediacy, and we think these changes will help that a lot."

Over the years, the media have repeatedly sounded the death knell for orchestral music. Orchestra officials scoff at such predictions, but Star Tribune classical music critic Michael Anthony thinks it's inevitable for two reasons. He says orchestras eventually will become too costly to maintain. And, he says, the music has lost its creative spark.

"The exciting new music is not necessarily in orchestra music anymore it's in music theater," says Anthony. "Some would still call it opera, but ... when that ceases (that has ceased quite a long time ago with orchestras) then I think it's just a countdown to the end."

Anthony says we're already seeing crisis situations with orchestras in communities such as St. Louis and Toronto—and even the Chicago Symphony has had financial difficulties. Because of the Minnesota Orchestra's more than $100-million endowment, and the SPCO's relatively low expenses because of its size, Anthony predicts they'll be among the last to go. But while there are plusses to the Twin Cities orchestral scene, there are also minuses.

"There's almost too much orchestra music in this town," says Anthony. "So the local scene will follow the general trend, where I think it's going to be more and more difficult ... to keep these orchestras afloat. But there's one thing I think could happen, and that is the combination of the two orchestras."

At this point, an orchestral merger is not in the cards. But the SPCO's Bruce Coppick says the two organizations could benefit from better coordination in terms of schedules and programming.

"During the fall of 2001, we both played the Fourth Symphony of Beethoven within 10 days of each other," Coppick said. "Well that's just silly."

According to Coppick, there have also been periods when both orchestras have been out on tour at the same time, which doesn't serve the community. Still, Coppick doesn't believe orchestral music is in trouble. He compares the orchestra business to the restaurant industry. "You know that the bankruptcy rate among restaurants is extraordinarily high. One would not deduce from that that there's a lack of interest in eating out," Coppick said. "What that means is that there's extraordinary competition."

Coppick says such is the case with orchestral music in the Twin Cities, which is good for audiences, because he thinks it means orchestras have to work harder. With both orchestras under the leadership of new music directors—Andreas Delfs at the SPCO, and Osmo Vanska beginning his Minnesota Orchestra tenure in 2003—that competition will only intensify.